posted Oct 29th, 2003 - The recent update from Germany related to the new Airbus 4-way lineup, and it connects with a new NSL News interview from the archives. It was first published in the German skydiving magazine Freifall Xpress, and EADS founder Jens Gönnemann answered the interesting questions. The NSL News translated it to English, and editor Peter Schäfer, who conducted and recorded the original interview, gave permission to make it available for the NSL News audience.

Peter Schäfer was interested in the financial operation of the 4-way national team EADS that competed for Germany at the world meets in 2003, 2004 and 2006. Jens Gönnemann then moved to Australia where he launched a new 4-way project with Rotor Out in 2009. He won the national championship title with Rotor Out in 2009 and 2010 and competed with the Australian team at the FAI World Cup 2011.

The NSL News introduced the interview with Jens Gönnemann on 29 October 2003 in the early version of the NSL website:

"We're all familiar with the images of excitement and jubilation that come with winning a sporting event. But there are times when it is easy to forget all the effort and discipline required to be a winner. Jens Gönnemann is a founding member of the EADS team, which is currently the German 4-way Formation Skydiving champion and national team. The sponsored amateur team placed 8th at the World Meet in France with a 17.2 meet average. In this interview, Jens Gönnemann explains to Peter Schäfer of the German Freifall Xpress magazine how to combine a career with competitive sport and how to work with corporate sponsors.

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Freifall Xpress interview with EADS member Jens Gönnemann, published by the NSL News on 29 October 2003

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FREIFALL XPRESS: The EADS team has been German champions twice now, has achieved meet averages of over 17.0 and is right up there with the leaders in international competitions. You have one well-known major sponsor and numerous other sponsors. When are you going to become world champions? JENS GÖNNEMANN: We are realistic in the goals we have set ourselves.

FREIFALL XPRESS: What are these goals? JENS GÖNNEMANN: We've set ourselves goals that are within our reach. When we're in training, we do 12 jumps a day and often spend an hour or so in the wind tunnel afterwards. Our trainer (Gary Smith of DeLand Majik) and his team are among the very best in the world. And when we're not at the skydiving base, we are very disciplined at keeping physically fit in order to be able to survive 14 days of training in a row. So from this point of view, there is actually very little that we can improve upon. What we could do is invest more time in the sport rather than just our six weeks annual leave. However, that would mean neglecting the important things in life, i.e. career and family, during the other 46 weeks of the year. And we decided we just didn't want that. So our declared goal is to be the best amateur team in the world.

FREIFALL XPRESS: You mean to say you'd rather give your time to your house, your garden and even your garden gnome? JENS GÖNNEMANN: Well, first of all, show me a team that puts in the same time as we do and achieves more. I don't know a single one anywhere in the world. And we're proud of that. We certainly don't expect after six weeks training to challenge or even beat a team that has been away in training all year. For us, it's a hobby we are passionate about, while for others it's a career. Why would I want to emulate with a team that is two points better than us, but does a thousand more jumps each year just to get there?

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FAI World Meet 2003			1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	Total	Avg
Rank	4-way Open - Semifinals and Finals		1,11,12	M,J,E,10	K,16,6	13,14,5	D,22,4	9,C,Q,N	F,19,21	2,20,L	18,B,3	8,P,7	Total	Avg
1	Maubeuge	FR	16	26	23	19	21	37	24	21	19	23	229	22.9
2	Golden Knights	US	17	24	22	19	18	35	22	18	19	20	214	21.4
3	DeLand Norgies	NO	13	24	21	19	18	36	19	16	19	21	206	20.6
4	Sebastian XL	UK	14	22	21	19	17	34	21	18	19	20	205	20.5
5	Sinapsi PD	IT	13	24	22	17	17	32	22	18	18	-	183	20.3
6	Endeavour	CH	13	21	19	15	17	29	21	17	16	-	168	18.7
7	NMPV	BE	15	19	19	16	15	29	19	16	16	-	164	18.2
8	EADS	DE	14	19	17	15	15	26	17	16	16	-	155	17.2

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FREIFALL XPRESS: I don't want to belittle your achievements, but it seems to me that there is a belt and braces mentality in Germany, where personal and financial security is put ahead of any idealistic goal. And because you can't be a world champion in any kind of sport with that sort of attitude, you've suddenly invented the title of amateur world champions.

JENS GÖNNEMANN: I have never described us as the amateur world champions. All I said was that I don't know any amateurs who are better than us. American skydivers have completely different opportunities than we have in Germany with its cold and inclement weather. In the USA, 100% dedication means you can live off the sport. After some time as a top sportsman you can work all year round as a coach. And if you're clever enough, you can even become owner or co-owner of a skydiving center. The conditions and the weather are totally different in America than they are here. In Germany, the span of a professional skydiver's career is significantly shorter. Due to the restrictive conditions in Germany you have to strike a balance between earning a living and top-class sport. Under such pressure, do you really expect the same results from us as you do from professionals? It's not the German mentality that's responsible for not having German world champions, it's also the weather.

FREIFALL XPRESS: So teams from Denmark or Norway come in third place at the world championships because the sun shines more in Scandinavia than it does in Germany? JENS GÖNNEMANN: The Norwegians, who are a very likeable team by the way, are supported by their association to a much greater extent than teams in other countries. They worked hard to come in a very respectable third place at the World Championship in 1999. Then they clocked up a few thousand dives and two years later came in third again. So here I ask myself: should I devote my whole life to the slim chance of coming in third, second or even winning? Wouldn't I be better off employing my talents more widely, getting the most fun possible from a hobby that I'm passionate about and at the same time pursuing a professional career that gives me at least as much satisfaction as skydiving? At least then I wouldn't have to explain to my family what I'm going to do after the skydiving is over.

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FAI World Meet 2004			1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	Total	Avg
Rank	4-way Open - Semifinals and Finals		B,P,C,18	9,15,16	K,11,19	E,F,7,5	A,J,21,12	6,4,10	17,Q,L,1	H,14,3	13,22,O	N,M,D,2	Total	Avg
1	DeLand Majik	US	29	23	17	30	18	19	27	21	19	24	227	22.7
2	Maubeuge	FR	28	22	18	30	17	19	23	20	18	24	219	21.9
3	Sky Panthers	RU	24	21	19	25	22	15	28	19	16	22	211	21.1
4	Sinapsi PD	IT	22	21	20	28	21	18	23	19	16	22	210	21.0
5	EADS	DE	20	18	17	24	17	16	19	17	16	19	183	18.3
6	HayaBusa	BE	21	17	17	21	11	16	20	17	17	21	178	17.8
7	Endeavour	CH	16	17	14	19	16	13	19	14	14	-	142	15.8
7	Arcteryx	NO	19	14	15	21	15	13	17	15	13	-	142	15.8
9	Danez	DK	17	16	13	21	11	15	19	15	14	-	141	15.7
10	Spain	ES	19	16	15	21	15	11	16	12	14	-	139	15.4

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FREIFALL XPRESS: Do your achievements not become less impressive if you consider the fact that you have EADS, a multi-billion dollar global company, behind you? JENS GÖNNEMANN: Hold on a second, 250 skydives and only six weeks of practice each year puts us ahead of many people who do over a thousand jumps in a year. I truly believe that this is a top-class achievement in itself, and we have also worked very hard for it. As far as support from EADS is concerned, when I applied to the management for sponsorship with a view to winning the German championship title, I only received a one-year contract. Both parties were looking to test the water first and see what the results were. We achieved our goal and if the company had not seen any advantages, then this one-year contract would not have been extended three years in a row.

FREIFALL XPRESS: So is it the sporting achievements or JENS GÖNNEMANN's rhetorical abilities that win over your company? JENS GÖNNEMANN: You can talk your way into getting the money the first time. However, if you want support for a second time then you must already have achieved something. That is the basic principle of our sponsoring concept – support calls for results in return. And if we don't bring home the goods for a fourth year in a row, EADS would no longer be interested in sponsoring us.

FREIFALL XPRESS: What are the concrete benefits that EADS gains from supporting your team? It's hard to imagine the company selling an extra Airbus thanks to your success. JENS GÖNNEMANN: The benefits are just as few as if Deutsche Telekom sold one more minute of talk time as a result of donating an eight-figure sum to a cycling team. The benefits of sponsorship are not directly measurable in every case. Yet, there are many indirect effects. One being the effect on the company's employees, who see how team effort lead to team success. At the end of the day, an organization like EADS is also a team, albeit a lot bigger. Particularly since Olaf Biedermann and I work for EADS, our sporting success communicates the positive aspects of teamwork to the other employees in a credible manner. And there's another benefit too - the aerospace and defense company EADS is connected with the image of a fantastic sport like parachute jumping and not just with its products.

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FAI World Meet 2006			1	2	3	4	5	Total	Avg
Rank	4-way Open - Top 10		N,20,16	K,J,C,G,3	D,19,B,6	L,14,10	F,17,M,2	Total	Avg
1	DeLand Fire	US	20	27	25	17	28	117	23.4
2	Gap Nice Icarius Autrement	FR	17	25	23	21	25	111	22.2
3	Sinapsi PD	IT	19	26	22	19	24	110	22.0
4	Sky Panthers Barkli	RU	21	23	23	17	25	109	21.8
5	Arcteryx	NO	18	25	21	17	24	105	21.0
6	Spa HayaBusa	BE	19	25	18	17	23	102	20.4
7	EADS	DE	17	23	20	16	18	94	18.8
8	Danez	DK	15	22	15	17	21	90	18.0
9	Spain	ES	16	18	17	14	19	84	16.8
9	Evolution	CA	15	14	19	14	22	84	16.8

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FREIFALL XPRESS: So, in other words, if you weren't employed at EADS you would not have received this support and the German champion might possibly have been someone else? JENS GÖNNEMANN: I would disagree with that view because almost every skydiver has a separate career. So almost every skydiver has an employer and therefore a forum for gaining similar benefits to those who work at EADS. Furthermore, I believe that other employers, especially in the consumer goods sector, are easier to win over than EADS which, produces investment goods. After all, it's a lot easier to create a direct relationship between parachute jumping and a consumer product on the mass market than for the goods from the aerospace and defense industry. Achieving a positive image transfer between an athlete or a type of sport and a soft drink or a muesli bar is much more straightforward.

FREIFALL XPRESS: Why does that not happen more often then? JENS GÖNNEMANN: You'll have to ask the other skydivers that question. When other teams quiz me as to why I have so much sponsorship money and they don't, then I ask them if they have done as much as I did beforehand to get money. And if so, are they prepared to eek out the money and to work hard with it, taking aboard all the responsibilities that go with it, so that in the end all this effort is reflected in the number of points on the score board. For example, if I ask these people if they have made an effort to lure the decision makers to the skydiving base and to jump out of an aircraft with them attached in tandem so that they then have a completely different perspective for discussing sponsorship, they mostly answer, "I don't even have a tandem license." Very often they seem unwilling to use even the simplest - but most convincing - means our sport can offer as an instrument to secure support. I have done 120 tandem jumps in my life. Of these 120 people, there have been ten that I have not known before the jump, and that is just one of many examples.

FREIFALL XPRESS: So you recommend a form of brainwashing by tandem jump to get decision makers to open their wallets? JENS GÖNNEMANN: There's nothing wrong with using a tandem jump to allow someone to experience parachuting and to increase their knowledge of the sport. I really don't mind if initially we are supported for rational or irrational reasons. As things go on, however, there must be a rational basis for the support because the experience of a tandem jump does not last forever. Yet, I can't help being surprised at how passive other sportsmen are when it comes to the subject of sponsorship.

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FAI World Cup 2011			1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	Total	Avg
Rank	4-way Open - Semifinals and Finals		C,22,19	E,M,1,2	12,9,16	O,8,10	Q,14,5	P,17,K,18	21,L,J,13	3,11,B	20,G,H,4	N,F,A,7	Total	Avg
1	Aerodyne Aerokart	FR	22	27	23	22	26	25	25	24	24	37	255	25.5
2	NMP-PCH Hayabusa	BE	22	27	23	21	24	25	21	23	24	39	249	24.9
3	Paratec-Saar	DE	16	23	19	15	19	18	16	19	20	31	196	19.6
4	Sky Panthers Barkli	RU	18	21	19	16	19	16	15	19	19	33	195	19.5
5	Gradient Alpha	RU	17	21	17	13	20	20	19	18	17	27	189	18.9
6	EX3MO4	IT	15	19	17	17	17	16	19	18	16	28	182	18.2
7	Bardagi	SE	15	20	17	15	16	14	19	15	17	29	177	17.7
8	Dynamite	DE	14	18	16	16	17	17	17	17	17	-	149	16.6
9	Rotor Out	AU	14	18	15	13	17	18	16	15	17	-	143	15.9
10	SonicNutz	UK	11	16	16	12	15	16	16	16	16	-	134	14.9
11	Whooops	NL	11	15	13	11	14	12	16	13	13	-	118	13.1

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FREIFALL XPRESS: As an employee of the company which supports you, you have it slightly easier than others do. JENS GÖNNEMANN: What makes you say that? Perhaps it makes the initial approach easier, but it's not enough just to know or work with someone if you want them to sponsor you. I too had to convince my superiors. Furthermore, the support we receive must be able to satisfy certain economic tests. And if the EADS management can do the calculations, then so can the managers of other companies.

FREIFALL XPRESS: But not everyone works in a multi-billion dollar group, whose sponsorship budget is probably paid from petty cash. JENS GÖNNEMANN: Sponsoring and skydiving don't necessarily take place just in large companies. There are thousands of opportunities for medium-sized businesses, for instance, who can't afford to invest in something as expensive as a cycling team or Formula 1 racing. And that is a niche where both this size of company and skydiving itself can benefit. But just because I have shown what's possible at EADS doesn't necessarily mean that it's not possible elsewhere. If I hadn't been successful the first time at EADS, I would have found sponsorship somewhere else. And then people would have said it's a good job you work at Bahlsen biscuit manufacturer or Melitta coffee company and not at EADS because otherwise you wouldn't have got support. I'm of the opinion that if I didn't work for EADS, another company would sponsor our team simply because all of our other sponsors, who I am not employed by, are more than happy with our achievements. But I certainly have no intention of resigning just to dispel any myths that I only got sponsorship because I worked at EADS.

FREIFALL XPRESS: How do they benefit from sponsoring you? JENS GÖNNEMANN: As far as the equipment sponsors are concerned, they benefit from sponsoring us because we use their materials and occasionally also help to make improvements to them. And I can speak for the team when I say that we use the sponsors' equipment because we believe in the product and not because we have to. For other sponsors it's slightly more difficult. Formation skydiving is not an event-oriented sport. You can't really hype up the onlookers at the skydiving base because there is no direct live experience to watch. Therefore we make an effort to provide financial sponsors with media material that they can use and market for reports in newspapers and magazines, on the Internet or television. We mostly produce this material during our training period. The photographers I hire can confirm that we do not leave a single training camp without having taken a couple of hundred photographs. During a competition we ensure that up-to-date shots and reports are added, including the opening celebrations, the competition, the awards ceremony with either happy or disappointed faces, as well as some original quotes on the event. That's just what has to be done.

FREIFALL XPRESS: Why should someone follow a non-spectator sport, which they can only understand after hours of explanation of the rules and conventions, when there are a number of other sports which are much easier to convey to the public? JENS GÖNNEMANN: The difference between "axle", "loop" and "toe loop" is something that 99% of television viewers are unaware of. Nevertheless, figure skating reaches a massive audience. The actual difference between figure skating and four-way formations, which are both hard to understand, is that the audience is right at the side of the rink for figure skating. Now people are saying that we should use a different format for parachute jumping in order to make the experience more real for the spectator. I believe this is wrong because the sport would suffer as a result. I think it would be better to find a different way of marketing formation skydiving in order to make the package more attractive to sponsors. Certainly there's not a lot more you can do with formation skydiving at the moment, even by changing the format.

FREIFALL XPRESS: What advice can you give to ambitious teams that want to be as successful as you? JENS GÖNNEMANN: In my opinion success can be organized, both in your career and in sport. This involves working on every aspect of success like you would on a strategy – a strategy is comprised of many fully coordinated individual steps. If you neglect an essential part of a strategy, the overall success of the venture could be called into question. By way of example, you have a team made up of four individuals with strong personalities, each of which coordinates their professional and sporting lives. You have chosen an excellent coach, who fits in well and constantly works on achieving good group dynamics. But if one of the four team members is not supported by his partner and this is a source of friction, then the success of the whole team, which blends together perfectly in every other way, will be put in jeopardy. In other words, it's important for every competitor to appreciate that the success of a team is for the most part shaped away from the skydiving base.

FREIFALL XPRESS: Thank you for this interview.